Not once did she mention the messages. How about this one from St. Thomas Aquinas on Nov. 17, 2009, after the condemnation: The decree set forth by your bishop concerning participation in this Mission here was presented as though it carried with it the charge of blind obedience. Allow God to unfold the truthHis full Truth. We learn (in Church history) that St. Athanasius disobeyed Pope Liberius, St. Godefrey of Amiens and St. Hughes of Grenoble disobeyed Pope Pascal 11. You cannot and you ignore that question too. The door to the soul IS free will because it is through our free choice (free will) that we CHOOSE either God or sin. As for arguing about it, from what Im reading here, I dont think it would make any dent whatsoever, no matter how orthodox, learned, or convincing the argument. I will pray for you too, Elizabeth, as well as for all those who doggedly insist on mocking and maligning HLM.. God bless you all and may you have a joyous and grace-filled Advent and wondrous Christmas. Then, all their gains are lost. After accomplishing the safe return home of her students, and after buying an acre of land near the Chapel to build a home to continue her commissioned duty to Our Lady, Sister Adele obeyed the Bishops command. OBEYED THE BISHOPS COMMAND. No more. Why are Priests, Bishops, Arch Bishops, Cardinals, Nuns, Brothers, Christians, children, etc. It sought approval through official channels for several years, but instead, in 1999, the Catholic diocese issued a statement urging extreme caution. To this day my daughter recites the rosary daily and every possible chance Adoration HLM says it isnt a Catholic organization. The judgments of peoples that are a constant in comments on this site again prove just how lacking in the true Faith the commentators on this site are. This is an example of what the devil gets out of false apparitions. That is why we have the Church, so that we dont get led astray by what looks good on the surface. There is where your danger to your Faith lies. I repeat: Bishop Lennon has only advised warned and counseled his disapproval of HLM. The implication is these bad people (whoever they may be) are attempting to suppress a message purported to be from heaven. Jesus and Mary would never, ever, ever, EVER counsel someone to be disobedient to the legitimate Church authority. Thanks for your clear, straight-to-the-point comment. If anything, HLM has brought me to a deeper understanding of the ancient truths of my Faith. Thank you very much for your articles I found these videos of Holy Love on YouTube and several of them seem to be advertisements for the Donald Trump campaign: You had better vote for him or else God will inflict a terrible punishment on America. Resist him, firm in faith (1 Pet. And hope for the help of Our Blessed Mother And her son Jesus. The word condemned was not used but it is apparent that there are serious concerns regarding the authenticity of the apparitions, among other things. Translation: I like to practiceits also an avenue for those who cannot understand the English well. Were talking about disobedience as it pertains to the laity who go to Holy Love after the Bishop has condemned and admonished the faithful to cease visiting the place. Navigating the Interior Life: Spiritual Direction and the Journey to God, article on Apparitions/Private Revelations, Holy Hacks: Everyday Ways to Live Your Faith & Get to Heaven, Big Hearted: Inspiring Stories from Everyday Families, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it%29, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12630, http://www.ewtn.com/Library/NEWAGE/MUGABAY.TXT, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2009/11/obedience-to-catholic-church-judging.html, http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/home/, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh-yR0pbmU, Irish Prayers for Strong Families and Spiritual Protection, 20 Ways to a Holy Christmas Through Advent, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, Archangels, Book Review: Habits for Holiness by Fr. This tells me the depth of your discernment if you see the piece that Kevin cited as worthwhile. the ministry here is unprecedented mother mary says that holy love is one of herfavorite places on earth! Heres the entries for synonyms for admonish: berate, censure, rebuke, chide, reprimand, reprove, scold. (Catholic Apologetics). WORDING IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT IN CANONMICAL DOCUMENTS. When some speak out against the Messages, keep in mind they oppose Heavens words., To live this way is to advance through the Chambers of the United Hearts. Before I wrote my original article on Holy Love, I had called and talked with someone from the ministry. There is a remnant that holds to the above, but in the mainstream these beliefs are trivialized within the Catholic Church. As authorDan Burkewarns, we have blind spots when it comes to ourselves. The problem is that I get the point only too well. Imitate this resignation by accepting trials.". reputable theologian who has examined the subject. And the pilgrims are indeed coming even from other countries. To commit Mortal sin, we enumerated those 3 things has to be present. But I emphasize what you noted in your story: you are not leading souls away from salvation with your warning. I am in no way affiliated with it. In the case of this particular apparition, no legitimate investigation was ever done. Blessed and Merry Christmas and a Blessed and Happy New Year to you and yours! I found all my references on the orhtodox website, Catholic Apologetics, which can be googled on the internet. Your arrogance is unbounded. Just because they are not listed does not mean they are not approving. Once they are off course, the messages can take over and Catholic priests and bishops may even be seen as the enemy for rejecting or ignoring the messages. Evidently there is fuller need to elaborate further, Kevin. Even those who attend Mass do not really know the Faith. (6)What I most wish to convey to you is how much Jesus depends on souls who have sincerely consecrated themselves to the Cross. Amen! There are a zillion ways to grow in the faith. Leary, a retired chemist who lives in the suburbs of Rochester, New York, has published more than a dozen volumes full of messages allegedly from Jesus, Mary and the saints, warning about the coming of the anti-Christ. If these folks dont yet have any internal warning flags going up at this point, argument isnt going to do it. We do not have the power to stop grace from Marys Heart from flowing into OTHERS hearts, but, by our free will choice to reject the grace offered to us THROUGH Marys Heart, we can indeed prevent it from flowing into OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL HEART. Lets give everybody another dollop of your skewered thinking. There was an ultimatum with himembrace Holy Love or you are showing that you dont love/trust him or God. The remnant are those who adhere to the Holy Eucharist, adoration, the Magisterium, the rosary. There is a you tube video on the internet formulated by Lennons Cleveland flock. Its irrelevant to this topic how many bishops and priests are either outright heretics or at the very least, not being true shepherds. However, if seeing is believing then one needs to look inside their heart and reevaluate if they are a true Christian. Needless to say, he backed down.). Can you imagine St. Paul telling the people of Corinth that they must do X without the courtesy of explaining why. Spiritual pride ~ you nailed it, but fail to see it in yourself. I dont understand how people can oppose that, but I know that Satan is doing everything he can to try to stop this Heavenly mission here on Earth. What in the world are YOU talking about? If the place is truly Catholic then the truth will out, as it has for every genuine apparition in Church history. 3221 came right back to me saying (words to the effect) that it did happen even if I couldnt verify it!!!!!!!!!!! We cannot say that of Bishop Lennons canonical record, now can we? He states that Catholics can never compromise Faith under the pretext of obedience. If Rome asked this bishop to send a report and based upon his observations, this is not a true apparition site, best to obey. The fact that Bishop Lennon wont provide me or others any concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. Can you say that of many bishops now in this country? Keep your eyes and heart open! A meeting with Holy Love representatives made it clear that the ministry will not subject themselves to the Catholic Church. That approval/disapproval belongs to the Bishop of the Diocese in which HLM is, in this case Bishop Lennon. Then, it becomes a matter of obeying Catholic authority or thinking you know better. If he is silent on the issues mentioned above this would explain his aversion to HLM which teaches the Catholic Faith in its traditional wholeness. You are a clear writer: you line of questioning tells the whole world, clearly, that you are digging for dirtsome scandal to justify your disobedience. Under investigation for what? Albert Drexel to help you comprehend this idea. Please stop attempting to cause confusion about this ministry. I will pray for you also. I must disagree with Thomas in this case as souls are at least equally at stake should people follow a false apparition. How sad that, even in the face of the most basic logic, many refuse to understand how dangerous it is to follow the serpentine path of these untruths. What do you think Bishop Lennons statement said if not condemning it, even if the Church may not elect to use that particular word in these modern days? Secondly, the Blessed Mother has acted through a perfectly legitimate canonical move. Didnt Jesus also loved the gentiles? My point was that 3221 is throwing things out as fact, without confirming and verifying such. Bishop Richard Lennon, head of the Cleveland Catholic Diocese, has issued a decree to clergy and laity of the diocese that Holy Love Ministries of Lorain County is officially off limits. One is either Catholic or not. So, you would also accept a metaphor of a God with multiple human arms and hands like some of the Hindu gods? He was given great responsibilities by the visionary, who claimed they came from Mary herself. Just so you dont go on misinformed the United Hearts would actually have 8 chambers. I think the Decree speaks for itself and there is no need to elaborate upon this matter. As the pastor of the Diocese of Cleveland his oversight certainly includes what is identified as ecumenical in that the faithful of the diocese cannot be encouraged or permitted to participate in any group or organization whose beliefs or practices contradict the teachings of the Church in faith and morals. Yet it is allegedly teaching the deep theology of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This happens when other legitimate actions done by the alleged suppressor are brought up in a negative way (example: Bishop Lennon closing parishes). Then, it becomes a matter of obeying Catholic authority or thinking you know better. Additionally, the bad people in the Church claim is also false, unless Sweeney-Kyle (et al) can prove that somehow the documents (and the doctrine behind them) that govern these matters were somehow written by these bad people to suppress HLM. Nor would there have been the initial miracles to report at Lourdes, France if people did not flock to the miraculous spring. He will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.. If the full Faith is not being taught, then it is endangered. EXCELLENT and apropos quote from the revelations to St. Margaret Mary. Ive even thought of going to the Holy Love website and copying/pasting some of the more glaringly ridiculous messages to try to argue it that way, but I see it would be futile. Amen." Where I live, there were many families traveling across several states to go to HL. The harping criticism is that to be Catholic one must be obedient to ones bishop no matter what. Those in love with God naturally crave closeness to Him. Wouldnt you think these are the blessed fruits of a true apparition? The error is in hearts that oppose the gospel and the graces which support it here.. This was an administrative action, which does not take away from his authority (and his mission to preach, teach and sanctify) to issue a pronouncement on the authenticity of visions/apparitions. The messages portray the Father saying that He is the Virgin Mary: "All must know I am the true Holy Trinity, the true Father, the true Son, the true Holy Spirit. He was very obedient to his Bishop despite the fact that the local diocese really handled the whole situation poorly. A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. There are none. Perhaps you need to read the document Harry. Im officially done (I think) discussing this with 3221. Fruits is more relative to the interior life of virtue, as St. Teresa of Avila teaches in her The Interior Castle (Sixth Mansion). Its nothing more than one mans account of his own personal private revelations from Jesus. No,Harry, I do not need to dig for dirt, the dirt is obvious for all to see. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. Those interested can read it on the Mystics of the Church website. Catherine of Sienna told them all on 11/18/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): Do not be fooled to believe you are not allowed to come., 3221 believes that Jesus Himself said on 11/13/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., 3221 believes that St. It sought approval through official channels for several years, but instead, in 1999, the Catholic diocese issued a statement urging extreme caution. Were such seers themselves duped, and heard or saw messages that were really not from God? Again, I reiterate something said above: the law of non-contradiction still stands. Our Lady is asking us to HELP HER through our prayers. I figured that the tens of thousands of pilgrims in Fatima who witnessed the spinning of the sun and had their soaked clothing dried in an instant when the Blessed Mother appeared as predicted had less to go on than we did. It takes awhile to digest such a fraud. Peace to all. Initially, not all were ready to condemn Marino. You also are so obsessed with Church law that you are missing what the Church is suffering.. Again, I learned this from Aquinas, The Church is where the true Faith is. He pledged to obey a church directive to dissolve the corporation. Correction, should be Where Maureen Claimed she was receiving messages and apparitions. You are in trouble if you think that obedience to heresy is of God. May God bless you and your family this Christmas season. The Church is not a democracy; the Bishop doesnt owe you an explanation. If he has said that, he would have been disavowing the Catholic Faith because everything said at HLM is clear and grounded Catholic doctrine. It couldve meant anything or nothing. If she remarried in the Church, then she would have had to have the necessary paperwork done, simple as that! He is succeeding in making people such as yourself to turn away from the Church and convincing you all that YOU are the faithful ones! Thank you for this article and I hope you and others continue to publicize this. The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, always looks below the surface because all that glitters isnt gold and regardless of how many people visit or how many statues are erected or rosaries said, it does not constitute proof in the Churchs judgment. Do you not know that it is through our free will choices that we sin? You have the document that proves condemnation. This, my friends, is what he gets out of it: There will be a number of people who believed they were healed or their faith brought to life through Holy Love Ministries that, like a rebellious adolescents, will respond, We dont have to listen to the Church .. I think he/she thought you were me in a previous comment on this Catholic Lane site! I would not get involved with it. A six-chambered heart is not an apt metaphor for the heart of God. We have two generations of ill-formed Catholicsdue to bishops who have failed Christ badlywho do not know the most fundamental teachings of their Faith,nor do they understand that the virtue of obedience is an obedience to defending the Faith, not the false obedience of unthinking compliance with bishops, especially when those bishops do not have the moral integrity which underpins any true discernment. In light of the above information, the admonish vs. forbidding argument is a red herring. This is according to St. Thomas Aquinas. What I almost certain of is that he does not reveal that he abandoned his family for this ministry. In preventing the faithful from going there, he is thwarting the spread of the true Faith in an age where there are few places to get it. I noticed that the conversation is stuck on the Bishops wording, etc. Period. This one is a little more sophisticated than HLMbut, it also didnt take long to find messages contradictory to what the Church believes and teaches. It makes it seems that the so-called messages are authentic. He is a very sick man. Ah! If the bishop who told you that the living Christ was not present in the host after Mass told you to put the remaining hosts in the garbage, would you obey him? I think as a math instructor I understood it could contain more chambers as well? Go back to the synagogue of Satan you call Holy Love Ministries and leave the Catholic flock alone. Do you hear yourself? Holy Mother the Church is wise, wise enough to reserve judgement the issue of authenticity. It is what it is. So, instead, the devil uses a Catholic facade to lure them in. 3221, back up and read what you just wrote. Earlier names associated with this group have been the "Our Lady Protectress of the Faith Movement," "Project Mercy," and "Mary's House of Prayer." They continue to seek Holy Mother Church is indeed wise. Well worth the read. In November of 2006, I wrote an article for Catholic exchange exposing the Holy Love site. We can go wrong following false phenomena and doctrine. Many have been fooled in the past, as what happened in the case of Sister Magdalena of the Cross, who made a pact with the devil for 40 years, convincing and fooling many, including higher Church officials, royals and dignitaries: http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html. In combination with Marys heart that would make ten chambers. I tell you again,I have backed up all the points you listed about HLM messages with sound and clear Catholic doctrine . This is Not true. Then came a time of upheaval. For Bishop Lennon to state in his canonical decree regarding Holy Love Ministries,.having reviewed the theological content of the alleged apparitions to Maureen Sweeney-Kyle, and having consulted an expert in this matter, I .declare the alleged apparitions and locations(I think he means locutions)are not supernatural in origin. one has to say that he disavows anything supernatural in origin in the teachings of the Catholic Faith, for the doctrine of Holy Love Ministries is the full Catholic teaching in all its pristine splendor. The clarity and the authenticity of the mystical theology taught there is the Catholic Faith. The apparitions/visions to Maureen have been ongoing almost daily for 25+ years. Does he advocate for women priests? How could false messages result in so many good fruits, such as to increase prayers and devotion to God, Mary and the saints? Most young people do not really understand the supernatural dimension of Catholicism. Souls are lost because we do not pray for them, we do not offer ourselves in union with Jesus so that we can through our union with Jesus win the grace these souls need to turn to God. Me gusta practicartambien, es una avenida para los que no pueden entender el ingles bien. Period. Did she have one?That is the only way, plus obedience to the Church . In conclusion, any Catholic who continues to promote HLM and Maureen Sweeney-Kyle needs to examine their conscience and review Church teaching. It was the published messages from Marino that inspired our prayer group to form. This Vatican overrode Lennons gross and unethical use of Diocesan properties and monies. Catholic mystical theology is lacking most deplorably in so-called catechesis today. the use of the word Cross here is meant to convey that one must consecrateset ones self apart for- entering into the sufferings of ones life with generous acceptance of Gods Will. It did not. and not only were the decree and letter published in English, they were also published in Spanish and Korean undoubtedly to insure that language was not a barrier to getting the information: http://www.dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=343:decree-holy-love-ministries-decreto-ministerios-del-santo-amor-&catid=67. Verified by 3 doctors. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. I hesitate to call it from the devil only because I think its equally possible, or even probable, that its simple a case of either an emotionally imbalanced woman (Sweeney) or a shrewd woman seeking notoriety and a very comfortable lifestyle. Unlike Holy Love Ministries, he was faithful and obeyed. Elsewhere, in these responses, I posted The Wanderers response which was something to the effect that The Wanderer is not indexed but they could not recall such a story so they were unable to confirm that information. he knows the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church so its easier for man not to go to church..or where the true spirit of god is calling us back to true worship. The bishop is wrong to discourage anyone from going here.It was never properly investigated and the resultant miracles were ignored. Were they standing with truth? I will offer my prayers at Mass tomorrow for you. At any rate, when a bishop disapproves of an appartition and warns his flock, they are free to heed the warning or leave it. What site is this? To be condemned CANONICALLY is an official act and there are no grounds for it so the bishopas much as he would like to, I am surecannot do so. There are none, nor could he name any. . Thanks, LizEst. Oh, there are always some of those, but for the most part, people are motivated by their love of God and their desire to experience Him in their lives to a greater degree. Jesus told us that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church and he promised to send the Paraclete to keep the Church free from error. If one reads Lennons Decree carefully, there is a LOT more going on in it than how some are arguing it. Third, conviction is hopeful. There is nothing theologically erroneous in the messages you cited. Padre pio asked why and Jesus turned and looked at his priests who were not tending the flock as they should. Analyze the different messages from the different saints and compare the language. And again, if you are questioning such an orthodox, fundamental concept it only goes to prove that you are very mixed up. Nevertheless, in my mind she has gone astray and it will get worse. Yes, there are those within Church structure that do not follow Church teaching. Avoid discouragement, judging others and false accusations. Lord have mercy. What Canon(s) specifically refer to the act of condemnation as a canonical act? 3221, you are right. Just knowing or reading these Commandments is not enough - you must internalize them and all they dictate in their simplicity. No, Mary it is NOT the last word. how manny bishops gave lip service to jp2. Patti and her husband, Mark, live in North Dakota, where they raised their 10 children. As Catholics, we are to follow what they ask of us. There is a specific procedure in canonical law for official condemnation. Holy Love did not disobey the Bishops letter. Some just cannot get their facts straight! I pray the Lord (and the Blessed Virgin) remove the scales from their eyes before its too late. Holy Love is to form the New Jerusalem, so whether or not it is Catholic is irrelevant. The Book Club at Roman Catholic Spiritual Direction: (http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621) will begin reading that very book this coming week. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin. In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits [CCC 1791]Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by othersassertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Churchs authority and her teachingthese can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct [CCC 1792]Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Afterwards, the house did sell. Perhaps Bishop Lennon had something like the above in mind when he condemned S-Ks claims? Primacy of conscience trumps blindly following disobedient bishops. You are all mixed up big time. Until and unless that happens, people are endangering their souls by going there. But obviously, his Bishop did not have good intentions. On the surface, everything about the site appears to be Catholic, but they are not Catholic. The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, always looks below the surface because all that glitters isnt gold and regardless of how many people visit or how many statues are erected or rosaries said, it does not constitute proof. Joan of Arc told them all on 11/17/12: Much private revelation which is worthy and poignant to these harrowing times is being subdued by erroneous even rash judgments.Such is the case here in this Mission which I have come to defend., 3221 believes that Jesus told them all on 10/14/12: I have come to ask your total detachment from the opinions of others. Vatican Two told us that, and the new head of the CDF has told us that failure to accept the TRUE teachings of Vatican Two is heresy. It is nice to know that you are still reading my posts even though you are unable to engage me. The question now is, will those that were enthralled with this Shrine, accept Church authority or continue to follow a ministry that has officially been condemned? Well we are in the middle of 2015 and there has been nothing. Nor would there have been the initial miracles to report at Lourdes, France if people did not flock to the miraculous spring. I will fight to the death for my true Catholic Faith. I do not speak for the sake of speaking but to instruct and guide., If you choose not to listen, the future does not bode well for your country or for you yourselves. Evidently you are one of the many who does not know what the Catholic Church teaches. Keep up the good work!oh, and a Blessed and Happy New Year to you and yours. This, my friends, is what he gets out of it: There will be a number of people who believed they were healed or their faith brought to life through Holy Love Ministries that, like a rebellious adolescents, will respond, We dont have to listen to the Church.. Madame, please state SPECIFICALLY the heresy at HLM. You care not at all for the beauty of what our Church holds, nor do you care that many many people are confused and lost to God because of the poor state of teaching by the bishops of this country. Refuse to gossip or speak negatively about anyone, ever (Ephesians 4:29). What happens if one day your Bishop told his diocesan priests that they are forbidden to celebrate mass from now on? You must digest them for any positive effect. In the Summa, Aquinas explains that If the Faith is endangered a subject ought to rebuke his prelateeven publicly. How dare you and shame on you! The Church has spoken and, even if one suspects that Bishop Lennon is wrong, he should be obeyed. The decree uses the word warning becasue that it what it isa warning not a formal command to obey. Does he support homosexual groups? God can use all things for good. I think that this third point is the crux of it all for this person (and others that continue to go to the site).

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